Curse

draxynnic · Mar 15, 2009, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Hrrmn. I think the Necro players could rightfully complain if Rt/Ns started being better MMs than N/ primaries...

...although, to be honest, I don't really think that would happen, as long as the increase in level from Spawning Power is sane. Rits don't have the Soul Reaping energy engine or the ability to reach 10 minions without buffs to their skills, so it would probably work out, at the most overpowered, as a quality/quantity thing.

If it IS to affect everything, I'd probably set it at +1 level per every 4 levels of Spawning Power - that way things like animated minions, Asura summons and EVAS don't get too silly. That might not be enough to keep spirits alive, but, well, at least it would HELP.

However, it still doesn't address the greater problem, in that the majority of possible Ritualist builds do not make significant use of SP.

spirit of defeat · Mar 15, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Hrrmn. I think the Necro players could rightfully complain if Rt/Ns started being better MMs than N/ primaries...

...although, to be honest, I don't really think that would happen, as long as the increase in level from Spawning Power is sane. Rits don't have the Soul Reaping energy engine or the ability to reach 10 minions without buffs to their skills, so it would probably work out, at the most overpowered, as a quality/quantity thing.

If it IS to affect everything, I'd probably set it at +1 level per every 4 levels of Spawning Power - that way things like animated minions, Asura summons and EVAS don't get too silly. That might not be enough to keep spirits alive, but, well, at least it would HELP.

However, it still doesn't address the greater problem, in that the majority of possible Ritualist builds do not make significant use of SP.

True rit's don't use builds a lot with spirit's because spirit's are not flexible, and die to fast.
Higher level=higher survival.

Rit's have 3 "unique" kind of skill type's
Weapon spells, Item Spells, Binding rituals.

The only thing these 3 things have in common are:
1) They all cost EN
2) They all have activation time
3) they all have recharge
4) they all last for a period of time

Not quite unique features.......

So it's hard to come up with something which balances all of that.
And if you do expect a lot of nerfs.

Bristlebane · Mar 17, 2009, 01:39 AM // 01:39

"For each rank of Spawning Power you have, creatures you create have 4% more Health, and weapon Spells you cast last 2% longer. For every 5 ranks in Spawning Power, theese creatures will also have 1 additional Health Regeneration. Some Ritualist skills, especially those related to Spirit creatures, become more effective with higher Spawning Power."

Now THAT would have been much more useful, and fit well with what Spawning Power really is all about.

draxynnic · Mar 17, 2009, 02:14 AM // 02:14

*ponders*

Not really. Two pips isn't a lot given the life expectancy of a spirit that starts taking damage, and it still doesn't do anything for the majority of (N/)Rit builds that basically rely on a cheap, fast-recharge token spirit just to set off the synergies without caring much about what the spirit itself does.

rohara · Mar 17, 2009, 05:55 PM // 17:55

i'd rather see them make spawning power skills more useful - its skill line is just an even lamer version of communing. increasing the spirit health boost would be nice too, because health is squat when they have no armor. spirits are just momentary free adrenaline builders for wars/paragons.

street peddler · Mar 17, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

each rank of spawning power your summoned creatures gain 5% max health, weapon spells last 3% longer, and for every 4 ranks creatures you create gain 1 level.

i have a dream..

infamous16 · Mar 17, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by street peddler

each rank of spawning power your summoned creatures gain 5% max health, weapon spells last 3% longer, and for every 4 ranks creatures you create gain 1 level.

i have a dream..

and how does this help channeling?

street peddler · Mar 17, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46

channeling doesnt need help.

draxynnic · Mar 18, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Neither does Restoration. This is why you see so many /Rt secondaries using Channeling and Restoration.

The point of a SP buff is to give someone an incentive to use Spawning Power... and, by extension, to use a Ritualist secondary. If a Spawning Power buff provides no benefit to the most used Ritualist skills (typically conventional spells and weapon spells with a limited number of activations) because they 'don't need the help', then it will have completely missed the target and we will continue to see N/Rts favoured over Ritualist primaries.

infamous16 · Mar 18, 2009, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Neither does Restoration. This is why you see so many /Rt secondaries using Channeling and Restoration.

The point of a SP buff is to give someone an incentive to use Spawning Power... and, by extension, to use a Ritualist secondary. If a Spawning Power buff provides no benefit to the most used Ritualist skills (typically conventional spells and weapon spells with a limited number of activations) because they 'don't need the help', then it will have completely missed the target and we will continue to see N/Rts favoured over Ritualist primaries.

Well I bet the devs are also having a hard time figuring out how to fix this problem. The only way I think to have primary rt be better than the /rt would be to make the resto line heal for less and make spawning somehow give more healing or something like that... Seems like fixing spawning is just to hard for a jack of all trades class, I hope they can figure out something.

draxynnic · Mar 18, 2009, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by infamous16

Well I bet the devs are also having a hard time figuring out how to fix this problem. The only way I think to have primary rt be better than the /rt would be to make the resto line heal for less and make spawning somehow give more healing or something like that... Seems like fixing spawning is just to hard for a jack of all trades class, I hope they can figure out something.

This is one suggestion that's been made, yes.

Zodiac Meteor · Mar 18, 2009, 05:00 AM // 05:00

[Nightmare [email protected]] Limits = 3 attacks
[Splinter [email protected]] Limits = 4 attacks
[Wailing [email protected]] Limits = 10 seconds, recharge 25
[Warmonger's [email protected]] Limits = 13 seconds, recharge 30
[Weapon of [email protected]] Limits = Target Self
[Weapon of [email protected]] Limits = It sucks
[Brutal [email protected]] Limits = Has no effect when enchanted
[Ghostly [email protected]] Limits = Next attack
[Guided [email protected]] Limits = 15 energy
[Sundering [email protected]] Limits = 3 attacks
[Vital [email protected]] Limits = Other useful weapon spells
[Weapon of [email protected]] Limits = Why don't we use this?
[Resilient [email protected]] Limits = Armor < Blocking
[Spirit Light [email protected]] Limits = Healing Breeze
[Vengeful [email protected]] Limits = Next damage
[Weapon of [email protected]] Limits = Next damage
[Weapon of [email protected]] Limits = 9 seconds, 20 recharge
[Weapon of [email protected]]] Limits = Why have the regen?
[Xinrae's [email protected]] Limits = Next attack
[Weapon of [email protected]] Limits = Next attack
[Great Dwarf [email protected]] Limits = Need a tank

How many weapon spells has a chance to not last their full duration?
9 out of 20

How many weapon spells last less than 1/2 the recharge
3 of 20

How many Elite weapon spells are out done by other normal spells
2 out of 5?

How many weapon spells that should be used more?
2 of 20 ([[Great Dwarf [email protected]] and [[Weapon of [email protected]])

Including the less than 1/2 the recharge. 12 out of 20 ends early, making SPAWNING POWER USELESS!

street peddler · Mar 18, 2009, 05:06 AM // 05:06

if weapon of quickening was in channeling/restoration it would be much more popular. also the cast time is kind of limiting.

rohara · Mar 18, 2009, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Including the less than 1/2 the recharge. 12 out of 20 ends early, making SPAWNING POWER USELESS!

when it comes to weapon spells that don't end after a condition is met, spawning power is an indirect form of energy management. when weapon spells last longer, you don't have to cast them as often, obviously.

however, you are right when it comes to weapon spells that end when a condition is met. rather than change spawning power to accommodate them, the solution would be to remove the conditions and adjust their durations so that spawning power can come into play.

infamous16 · Mar 18, 2009, 08:57 PM // 20:57

So, if most of those weapon spells were weakened ALOT, but instead of making it end at next attack or whatever, they could have a duration.

then spawning power would actually help.

very good idea guys

draxynnic · Mar 19, 2009, 04:24 AM // 04:24

I'd be inclined to say that the weapon spells with duration less than half recharge are some of the better arguments for using Spawning Power in it's current form. They're all fairly powerful effects, where making them last 20% longer can mean another interrupt or another application of Blind or whatever.

A more important analysis would probably be on which of those skills get used. The weapon skills that tend to be mentioned in high-powered builds are Splinter, Vengeful (and Elite variants) and Warding, which makes 2 out of 3 end early (and the ratio goes up if you include the aforementioned elite variants of Vengeful).

spirit of defeat · Mar 19, 2009, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by infamous16

So, if most of those weapon spells were weakened ALOT, but instead of making it end at next attack or whatever, they could have a duration.

then spawning power would actually help.

very good idea guys

Making all weapon spells like that would be a lot of work, that's the reason it probebly won't happen.

It is a good idea.

Soulfire Cleopatra · Mar 19, 2009, 08:25 AM // 08:25

/signed It's a great idea considering Spawning power seems to almost play a useless attribute. You can be a spirit spammer w/o it and it will still be fine.

Magikarp · Mar 24, 2009, 06:58 AM // 06:58

EDIT to spirit armor level and SP breakpoints

I've been thinking about SP for a long time, and I think that this idea (although a little wordy) isn't overpowered, but more than enough to give the Rit power over it's own profession. Ok here goes:

Spawning Power-
For each rank of Spawning Power you have, creatures you create (or animate) will have 5% more Health and weapon spells you cast last 3% longer. Binding spells will cost 5% less energy, cast 5% faster, have 5% more armor, and recharge 5% faster for every 2 points of Spawning Power. Some Ritualist skills, especially those related to Spirit creatures, become more effective with higher Spawning Power.

-OR-

Spawning Power-
For each rank of Spawning Power you have, creatures you create (or animate) will have 5% more Health and weapon spells you cast last 3% longer. For every 5 ranks of Spawning Power, all of your other Ritualist skills will gain 1 additional attribute point. Some Ritualist skills, especially those related to Spirit creatures, become more effective with higher Spawning Power.

AND!!

For PvE only, allow up to 3 duplicate spirits be made in one area. That would be amazing.
What do you guys think?

I personally think that the breakpoint of 4 for my second idea still wouldn't be overpowered, but hey, that's me.

spirit of defeat · Mar 24, 2009, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

For every 3 ranks of Spawning Power, all of your Ritualist skills will gain 1 additional attribute point.

wtf so @ 12 SP and 12+1+3 chan and 3 dump points in res
I will have a total of 20 chan :S and still have total 7 resto :S

overpowered

Quote:

For PvE only, allow up to 3 duplicate spirits be made in one area. That would be amazing.
What do you guys think?

This has been suggested but how would it work?
set up 3 life?
or 3 recuperation so you get 9 regen?
will have to many issues